Not that this is news is new, but a thread on Reddit became very popular yesterday and has continued to flood in an array of comments that discuss why gay men have the tendency to hate on other gay men who are effeminate.
It started with this: "Listen y'all, you don't have to date feminine men, you don't even have to be in the same social circles as them but I hate how ignorant and downright bigoted a lot of you are towards feminine gay men. I think a lot of you need a history lesson on the gay rights movement cuz y'all wouldn't be able to fuck your bro-friend and hold hands with them openly without those feminine gay men."
169 comments later (as of now), and we are talking about an issue that quite frankly has been going on for years and years in our community. The problem with this issue is similar to a lot of other issues within the gay community, in that all we do is finger point and never take the blame for ourselves. If there is one thing a gay man does not like, it is being called on their own shit that would offend even one person if not thousands. This is the true case.
So why is our community so harsh on effeminate men, yet we all can kiki and go to the bars to watch RuPaul's Drag Race? I see men who from a distance are very strong, buff and built in their presence, yet sashay down 7th Avenue like they are working a runway and walk into a bar saying "Hey girl, heyyyyy!", but won't give someone who was born with effeminate traits the time of day.
Why? Is it embarrassment? Is it because our society breeds this sort of behavior to where shows on mainstream networks that depict us do it in a stereotypical way that would give us the desire to stay away from these men as they don't want to fall into that category? What is it exactly?
Here are some of the responses from that Reddit post:
"The meanest people to femme guys are…. other femme guys. In my experience at least. The worst I've heard coming from masc guys is them being outspoken about wanting other masc dudes as partners and really… that's not bigoted behavior is it? Now, I have definitely noticed bottom shaming, always by tops and I never understood that. I love topping and if a guy lets me ram my you know what up his you know where then the last thing I'm going to do is shame him for it. I've literally heard guys just say "ok bottom" as an insult. I just don't get it."
I like that term socially versatile… Although feminine gay guys do help ease the social tension, I find. As long as they aren't abrasive or rude, fem gays can help more masc guys "ease up" so they don't have to try so hard. A lot of times those "bros" are all just trying to be harder than the guys around them, and it just ends up being a really stifling time. So acting fem can be a way to loosen out of that.
Maybe this is just my personal experience as a college student in a liberal city, but I feel that most of the time I'm not welcome in the mainstream gay community because I'm not "feminine" enough. I am preppy and I like sports and beer, and a lot of the people in the gay community where I am view that negatively sometimes for no apparent reason, which quite frankly adds fuel to both my subconscious and conscious biases that I admittedly have.
These three very different comments do bring up a good point that I have taken notice of for years. The gay community has become an ever growing cafeteria of sorts, where different types, fetishes and more have all found their table to sit at yet refuse to talk to another table for whatever reason they may be. Whether its shaming a dude for being a bottom, feminine, or more, maybe a lot of us can get that metaphoric stick out of our asses and just accept each other for who we are just like we are striving as hard as we can for culture in itself to do that.
Why hate on one of us when millions of others do it for no good reason? It makes no sense. Embrace who you are in this community, and if someone hates on you for it, well… fuck em.
FemProud
FemProud
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I think as a giù just said on reddit.. that the problem it's not just inside gay community but inside our culture and his sosciety that blames girls just for Beeing girls. It's not a New thing that culture (worldwide) is more Masc Aplha thing. Because originally that's what it supposed to be. Because of genetical and phisical skills. But in 2017! This kind of division of fem (weak) and masc (strong) shouldn't be so Categorical and limited… because we'r not anymore just animal or tribal people… Humans r very complicated and diffrent all' One by One… and everyone should be respected for Who they r and What they actually can do! I'm a fem bottom and proud of that… i act fem, i look fem (even if i'm wearing totally masc kinda clothes), i talk fem, i prob. Walk fem… and i do like A LOT of fem things… but not only… because of my appereance and my body and all my beeing me… i remind people of a girl but… (usually masc lesbians do try to 😉 me… and that it's really cool to me i like it, even if i've to deny because i'm a guy Who likes other guys -sexually and phisically talking- but i could tell that there's r a lot of lesb i'm instinctly attracted to because i'm just attracted MASCULINITY in general as It is attracted by a FEMININE principle -THAT'S JUST THE MOTHERF****ING NATURE- and duality of life )
As a fem gay, i could certeinly say that i do have more appretiacion from STRAIGHT MEN than from gay onesss….
all this targets and lables in our society had fuck up our feelings… and emotions…
i think that should be less labless just the basic ones (as FEM and MASC for EEEEEVERYONE) because Whether anyone wants it or not…. that's What duality is and spieitually thinking Opposites attract each others…that's just how life it goes)
and that should be more ACCEPTANCE of OUR SELF and What Who we r! As a italian gay man i could say for sure … that for exemple the most of gay who defines them self as versatile… r not REally! Most of them r actually btm… but -stereotypically- is more acceppted because versatile by definition do not just take but also give…. so they r more Man for a Mascluine society than a fem btm guy who just recive…
so i think that in 2017 should be more tollerance and acceptance 1º of ourself and then for the others….
not talking Bout duality, roles it's a contraddiction in this kinda discussion… because OUR ENTIRE WORLD AND BEING HUMAN IT'S BASED ON THAT.
By my little point of view BE WHO U DEEPLY TRULY R DESPITE WHAT MAY PEOPLE THINK!
If u r bottom it's okok, don't be ashamed of that
if u r masc and straight-acting and u like fem don't be shy because u think the could make u labeled by society as a gay Man! As long as u like men, u r gay…. despite of u like them girly or not!
If u r fem and dom bottom! It's ok don't be ashamed of that u r a wonder woman! Not a slut!
1º SELF-KNOWLEDGE
2º ACCEPTANCE
3º TOLLERANCE
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this is a really deep and strong issue… centuries don't and would't be enough to discuss bout it…
being MASC or FEM r Not such a thing they r just a kind of BEING HUMAN ANYWAY…. but in 2 different and Similar ways at the same time
I have some feminine traits
I have some feminine traits (I suspect the majority of people have some feminine and masculine traits or instincts to whatever extent no matter their gender, orientation or "lifestyle"), but I'm definitely quite a ways from being considered "fem" and have dated mostly stereotypical effeminate men. I've found a variety of different types of men attractive and fun to be around. The problem is that I can't stand the "bro culture" or "bear culture", but I don't really fit with the "fems" either. That's why (I hate to say this) the majority of my friends are women and straight guys.
I do agree that men remain a fvcking mess when it comes to self-acceptance, self-comfort, self-respect and obsession with trying to indulge or subvert stereotypes. Sexual orientation used to just mean the gender or genders you have sexual attraction to. Now, it means about 50 different things. But it's still not about masculinity or femininity, your social group, liking to top or bottom, your fetishes, whether you like sports and/or RuPaul's Drag Race, etc. It's still not even a "behavior". Homo and homo-dominant men still get confused about these things and still spend too much of their lives obsessing over how they're perceived by everyone else or finding the perfect "lifestyle".
I've found that there's a large percentage of a-holes and idiots and crazies in every demo. So, ultimately, none of it matters.