Do you take offense to this shirt? Should we? The article below from Mic.com states that this shirt and this saying shows that the gay community is "sexist, racist, and discriminatory AF." Well no shit, Sherlock. We know that men have preferences. Have you ever talked to your friends about yours? I am shocked at how many of my friends do not find black men sexually attractive. SHOCKED! But I am not going around calling them racist, but apparently I should? Here in Florida, we see a ton of no whites, no blacks, prefer dark skin, just brothas. Are we coddling the fats and fems more than the other groups?
Getting back to the shirt, I guess my issue is … well I don't really have an issue with this shirt at all. I guess it may be from riding my bike as a child with no helmet or sitting on my mother's lap in for the entire duration of a 1200 mile family road trip. Or could it be that my car doesn't have air bags or anti lock brakes? Or the fact that, because of my weight, I was picked on constantly and called cupcake and fatty on the school bus throughout my entire childhood. Why are we becoming so fricken p.c. now? Why are we a society that needs to coddle those that are feeling threatened all the time. Why are we jumping to protect people when there is no threat there to begin with? Why are we crying over this shirt? Did our skin become so sensitive and thin that we cannot believe someone would put their sexual preference on a shirt? We are a community that wraps everything in a Rainbow to show that we are in favor of something a little different than the rest of society.
Heaven forbid if we ever sang along to either Sir Mix A Lot's "Baby Got Back" or Nicki Minaj' "Anaconda." Anyone remember "Short Dick Man" from 20 Fingers? Speaking of body issues due to popular sayings. You better have a big ass if you want to sleep with a man and if you're a man, you better have a big dick. After hearing Drake's, Lil Wayne's and Minaj's "Truffle Butter" song, did you ever look up the definition of Truffle Butter? Looks like the ladies better like anal sex if you're going to sleep with those boys.
I'm a fat man. At one point, I was down to a 30 inch waist and a 48 inch chest, but that was when I only had one job back in the early '00s. I've always been a bigger guy besides that. Since moving to Florida about 3 years ago, I've put on a bad 40 lbs and am about 250 right now and have a 40 inch waist. I realize when I go onto Grindr and Scruff that I will not be found attractive by 95% of the men on those sites. AND I'M FINE WITH THAT. If they put no fats in their profile, or put that they are into fit men or not into overweight guys, I understand that and move on. Thank goodness they put that in there at least so I don't waste my time hitting them up. I don't see a difference in saying "no fats" or "just into fit men." If you have the time and the energy to be ridiculing men on Grindr, etc., about how they express and word their sexual preferences, then just shut your phone off and watch PBS.
So now that I've expressed my most likely not well accepted opinion, here's the article from Mic.com that I mentioned. This will probably resonate better with most of you.
Online retailer Marek + Richard, which makes a "wide range of rad gear" including jockstraps, tanks and snapback hats marketed to gay men, debuted a new tank top recently that rubbed a few online users the wrong way.
The tank in question is a simple black tank that says "No Fats No Fems." Marek + Richard did not immediately reply to a request for comment.
"No Fats No Fems" is a now-ubiquitous phrase on gay hookup apps like Grindr that means a person is not looking to hook up with men of size or feminine men. There's even a forthcoming documentary addressing the short phrase and what it means for gay men in terms of culture and identity.
There is no doubt the shirt is discriminatory — its intention is to separate those you want to sleep with (thin, masculine) with those you don't (fat, feminine). And while having preferences against fat or feminine men may seem innocuous enough, putting it on a shirt or even on an app profile speaks to a larger truth about the gay community: We're sexist, racist and discriminatory AF.
Here's proof: One 2012 study in the journal Body Image showed that, when it comes to short-term relationships, gay men prize lean, muscular builds the most. And that's a problem. In 2005, researchers found that being gay alone is a risk factor for men to develop eating disorders due to pressures to be thin.
The media only amplify these messages. A 2011 study found that the models in gay-centric magazines were both thinner and more muscular than the men in magazines like GQ. Images like these reinforce the importance of a thin, muscular physique. And they work: Several studies prove that gay men on average have lower body mass indexes than straight men.
The other problem is that, for many gay men, muscularity equals masculinity — which is often prized in the community. The study "Reported Effects of Masculine Ideals on Gay Men" showed that gay men often feel "psychological distress" if they cannot be masculine enough for the gay community. As Michael Kimmel wrote in Guyland, "Men perform their masculinity for other men, who are the ultimate judges of it."
On the other end of the spectrum, fats and fems are linked because gay men of size are thought to have feminized bodies — due to their larger hips, breasts and butts, Jason Whitesel wrote in his book Fat Gay Men.
"In the case of big men, fat amounts to degradable femininity," Whitesel wrote.
And, while the tank and the phrase "No fats no fems" does not sound like it would have racist implications, it actually does. A study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that gay men associate Asian men with being feminine bottoms, while black men are aggressive, masculine tops.
So it's not just a simple black tank with a phrase. Clearly, its implications are far-reaching and play into ill-conceived notions about gender, sexuality and race. There are a lot of steps we need to make toward correcting these attitudes, and an easy first move is to reject the message on this shirt.
April 28, 2:22 p.m.: After this story was published, Marek + Richard addressed the tank top and online response to it with a tweet. The tweet claimed the shirt was satirical. – mic.com
No fats, no fems. If someone has that on their profile and you are one of those, JUST MOVE THE FUCK ON. There are so many more fish in the sea. Let me repeat. There are so many more fish in the sea. How many dating apps are out there? And how many men are on them? If they are looking to date and they do not like those societal labels on their mate and they are written all over you, they are not worth your time. Shouldn't you be thanking them for their honesty about what they like which in turn doesn't waste your time in trying to meet them? I know darn well when you're criticizing one guy for having the "no fats, no fem" phrase in his profile, you're passing by the next guy because his nipples are too big or he has odd shaped ears. Is he cross eyed? Why did he shave his chest like that?
If straight men had a shirt that said "no fats, no butch girls", would that be as bad? What if lesbians had a shirt that said "no u-hauls, no cats"? Okay, that last one was funny.
As a fat man, I do not bat an eye at the no fats, no fems saying. I know what I am and who I am. Once you let someone else define your happiness, you have given them power over your life. So if someone has a preconceived notion about what someone like you may be like, they share it for the world to see, you have to ask yourself, does it really matter what they think? And if it does, then you have let them have power over you and how you feel about yourself.
The phrase I see in profiles that really bothers me is "if you're … , step to the front of the line." What sexual moron is forming a line at his front door using Grindr candidates? Wear the damn tank top, but if I have to wait in line, there had better be plenty of protection being used. And would I want to wait in line? Won't you be tired and used by the time I get there?
Getting back to the shirt. Would I feel differently if it did say "No Blacks, No Asians"? What if it said "No Whites"? I guess that is a different blog.
Of course, these are my views as a blogger, not a reporter, not Instinct Magazine.
H/T: mic.com
I don’t normally comment on stories but…given my “age” I thought I would. I grew up and went through Jr. High School in the 70’s so I may have developed a thicker skin. I also having two gay nephews (in their early 20’s now) I asked them their thoughts on the t-shirt after they read the article. One laughed and said “what is fat? what is fem? both are subjective words and only carry meaning to each individual” Which I found somewhat enlightening. Also, a flashback to my 20’something self squeezing into those size 30/32 jeans and weighing in at 165 (OMG!! I am so fat) now if I hop on the scale and it is under 200, bring on the doughnuts. The other shrugged (bi-racial, so he had other factors he considered in the article) and said…who is wearing it and do I find them attractive to begin with? But neither seemed to be as “offended” as some of the comments above. There are times me and the boys are hanging out and a song comes on and Gurl watch out someone is going to jump up and dance, shimmy, and lipsynch for their life, does that make him fem? At times it has been the biggest butchest of us all…would he qualify as “no fem”? I also have friends who weight a good 230 but they would not consider themselves fat. We need to start looking within and have a better self-perception. As a society have we done more damage than good with the everyone is a winner or everyone gets a trophy when it comes do dealing with reality?
Don’t agree with the shirt
Don't agree with the shirt but I support the idea that people aren't obligated to date any individual or group or similar individuals. You are only entitled to equality under certain conditions. No one owes you an equal opportunity to date them nor do they owe you their personal interest and time. The world doesn't revolve around our individual feelings. Having racial preferences doesn't make you a racist just like interracial dating doesn't free you from being one. People have a right to have any preference they desire. I just personally believe there are better ways of expressing your desires without insulting others. You can date one one race exclusively and still make a final selection based on individual characteristics among members of that particular group.
Dating/mate selection is a naturally discriminatory selection process. The process is discriminatory when it comes to both physical and mental attributes. It is a personal choice based on one's self-interest and individual desires. It is naturally influenced by both biological and social factors. Nature shows us many examples of this. Some animals even mate based on a hierarchy system.
Who cares? Stay off those
Who cares? Stay off those pathetic cell phone apps and find a real connection in the real world. Whether or not this shirt exists, the person with the opinion will. A debate on Instinct.com surely won't solve it. If you ever come across a person wearing a shirt like this and it is reprehensible to you, you already know what's up, right?
Such crap.
Such crap.
think about it: if a black man were to wear a shirt that said "SORRY! BRUTHAS ONLY!" no one would give it a second glance. BUT if a WHITE guy were to wear a shirt that said "I ONLY SLEEP WITH WHITE GUYS" that person would immediately be surrounded by wagging fingers. Is that fair? Is that not the same?
Racism is "when a person gets treated differently ONLY because of race." Well, then it should follow that if an African-American got to step to the front of a movie theater line because the ticket-taker was also African-American," I consider that "racism" too, right? Right?
I guess I'm alone on that one.
Personally, I think most
Personally, I think most people in the LGBTQ community are bright enough to know that anyone who would wear a shirt that says either of your statements is racist. Not all prejudice is racist. The issue is closer to snobbery than anything else. It's also a matter of tact and class as well as insecurity. If a guy is good looking enough and exudes masculinity and confidence, there's a good chance he will not have to wear a shirt broadcasting his taste. He also better look and act the part. There are more than a few guys I've met who claim to be masculine that are quite frankly as masculine as a 7th grade girl with the giggles.
I think you forgot a “not” at
I think you forgot a "not" at the beginning of your response
You are missing the point
You are missing the point (and are self-centric) … Don't think about yourself only, but for example, what about young men going on that plateform and seeing NO NO NOn like they're disgusting and should not belong there. "TURN OFF", as you say it yourself. I don't see often "no muscular white men". And I am one…
Nope. Didn’t miss the point,
Nope. Didn't miss the point, but thanks anyway.
What are young men going to do? They are going to realize that a person wearing that shirt or using that phrase is not into them sexually. Look at all the magazine covers, news anchors, stars, and such. If you tried to fit in and look like everyone else and get approval from everyone, you best stay home.
As I said, once you let someone else define your happiness, you have given them power over your life.
As for the young men, should we ban the shirt from their view and say, no, everyone does love you. Rose colored glasses and sugar coat everything. Give them a cookie if they feel threatened. Or do we teach them that there are people that are shallow and are into certain body images and they are not into you. Do we inform the fats and fems that there are so many more people out there. Do fat and fem people love all body shapes too? No, we all love different things about different people.
Going back to my friends. I know most of them like fit men and if they wore that shirt, it would be fine with me. I have other friends that just like feminine men and others that just like bears. I'd love to see them wear a shirt that says fems only, bears only, no skinny boys.
No fats, no fems, and masc4masc are such easy targets. It's almost like the rest of the gay community is attacking one side of the rainbow because it is too close to heterosexuality.
I’m not a Hemingway man’s man
I'm not a Hemingway man's man type, but I'm not a queen. I'm also not exactly fit, but I don't need to walk through a door sideways, either. Like many men gay and straight, I'm average, and the guys I like are, average. That being said, if I were looking and met someone who is not my type physically, at least I'd hope I did not close myself off initially, and if I did, I'd deserve it if he said "You're not exactly my type." I also know that if someone wore a shirt like that, no matter how hot, it would be a turn off, and I probably wouldn't be looking in the first place. Years ago many assumed that if a man was only attracted to fit masculine men it was because he felt having sex with a more effeminate man was admitting he was gay, so it was denial. Now we see it for what it often is, superficiality. Sometimes we act like we're in high school with cliques, immature put downs, and the like and it probably is not our issue alone. However, before we look at this as our issue alone, it there are straight men who wear similar shirts.
The truth is, when I was that
The truth is, when I was that age, I felt the same way. I had a mental picture of "Mr. Perfect" that I pursued when I was out at the clubs, and elsewhere. Now that I am older and wiser (on some issues), I have learned that it's what's inside that really matters. I never, at the time, realized that one day, I would not make the short list of what the ideal man was. In spite of that, I am happier than ever now. The shirt neither offends me nor my husband, but we do snicker behind our hands, because the people who wear those types of shirts have no idea what they are missing.
It’s very simple.
It's very simple.
Don't like the shirt? Don't wear the shirt.
Don't like the douche wearing the shirt? Don't have anything to do with him.
Don't go around complaining about EVERYTHING in life that hurts your fragile feelings. You will never abolish them completely.
Be a man, learn how to deal, and move on with your life.
It’s not the fact of having
It's not the fact of having an "opinion" or "type". The need to express that derogatory opinion to the general public via social media or other propaganda is the issue. Not everything you think or feel needs to be expressed on such a level. Simply have your opinion and keep that to yourself and bypass any unnecessary or irrelevant information in regards to your decision making processes. In a culture already battling for simple human rights and inclusiveness, is it necessary to further substantiate the homonormativity pressures already placed on homosexual culture? This is where the problem lies. By blatantly expressing those "opinions" or "beliefs", it only enhances the standard of "normal" societal demands of what gay culture SHOULD be, undermining the ACTUAL culture and inclusiveness our past generations have fought so fiercely to redefine. So yeah, it's a little more than a t-shirt or bio on an app profile.
Right on!!!
Right on!!!
I was reading through the comments hoping someone would say this so I wouldn't have to. Thank you. I second that emotion. Hallelujah preach!
Thanks Liam. I usually don’t
Thanks Liam. I usually don't comment on blogs, but I felt very strongly on the subject.
It’s great that as an
It's great that as an overweight man you're so enlightened and able to move past douchy profiles, but, I don't think saying "just move on" or "turn off grindr" is something everyone can do. And, the reality of the situation is that this is not on grindr; it's on a shirt being displayed in public. It's one thing to display phrases on grindr or scruff (which could be said with much more tact, though obviously against the "satirical", read dickish, humor), but they're being publically displayed for others to see and not in some app they're choosing to be a part of. And yeah, it mostly just make the wearer look like a jackass, but it's also putting that negativity out there. It could make others feel bad, influence youth, fuel hatred, etc. So, while it's easy to say "just shake it off," unfortunately, that's not the way the world works. I agree, people have the right to desire whatever type of person they want, and honestly, wear whatever they want, but that doesn't necessarily make it "right."
Yes, I get that the shirt’s
Yes, I get that the shirt's intent is satirical and I'm okay with that. But I really hate it when people argue against being "PC". Political correctness isn't about being uptight or taking undue offence – It's just about respecting others' differences and there's nothing wrong with that.
Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for posting this.